Talk about a misleading clickbait headline (UPDATE: he fixed it!)

"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein) 12/16/2014 at 13:10 • Filed to: None

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Travis is stirring up the clickbait pretty bad on the FP: " !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ." It's a comparison between a rwd M3 on winter tires and an awd Forester on summer tires. The M3 does better in the snow. Shocking.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

The problem is, this comparison does not have a control tire. You can't make a conclusion about whether awd or rwd is better in the snow, when awd vs. rwd is not the only variable in the experiment. The two cars have completely different tires on them.

What this comparison shows is an awd car on summer tires— which all else being equal, namely the tires, would have a traction advantage over a rwd car —is not as good in the snow as a rwd car with a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! on winter tires. The proper conclusion to draw is not that awd is worthless in the snow, but that summer tires are so much worse in the snow compared to winter tires that the traction advantage of awd is negated by the summer tires.

Or put another way, awd is worthless in winter, without proper tires .

Now here's the thing: I've performed this experiment, with a control tire. I live in Wisconsin and have driven through a shitload of snow. For my year-round daily driver, I had a '99 Miata for 4 years, and then an '06 Mazdaspeed 6 for 5 years. I ran Blizzaks on both of them in the winter.

The Miata did better in the snow than any rwd sports car with no traction control and shitty ground clearance should really have done. There were plenty of times where I saw 4x4 SUVs with all-season rubber spinning their wheels while I was able to accelerate just fine. The Blizzaks did their job.

BUT. The awd MS6, which also had Blizzaks on it, was a significant improvement in winter traction over the rwd Miata with Blizzaks.

Starting from a dead stop was far more controllable with awd. The Miata would get going, but not without a significant amount of wheelspin. I also had plenty of (controllable) 4-wheel drift moments in the Miata when I didn't really need to be sliding the ass end around. These still sometimes happened in the MS6, but nowhere near as frequently. Braking was similarly impressive in both cars, since they both had winter tires and upgraded brakes.

Basically, the conclusion drawn by Mr. Okulski in his post is a load of shit.

Put an awd car and rwd car next to each other with the same tires on them , and then see what happens.

The gauntlet has been thrown.

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UPDATE: Travis !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . All is well.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:14

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SO MUCH THIS^^^^

DasWauto > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:15

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Welcome to Gawker media, where the headlines are made up and being technically correct doesn't matter.

bob and john > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:15

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I agree that was a shitty post on his part.

lone_liberal > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:15

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I agree with everything you just wrote. I avoided adding my comment to the FP article just because it was so obviously flawed. The car I own right now is the first AWD car that I've ever owned which shows that AWD is not necessary but it's a lot less drama than even the FWD/Blizzak combinations that I've driven in the past when getting started from a stoplight in the middle of a steep hill.

Party-vi > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:17

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Travis gets money from clicks and ads. Clicks are gotten from sensational headlines. This is how Gawker operates. This is a known fact. People who complain about clickbait headlines are the same people who say "it's hot outside" in the summer. No shit it's hot outside, because it's summer.

Also, their "test" consisted of two cars mashing the skinny pedal on the same street and you're worried about having a control? This isn't exactly science they were doing here.

I think the bigger issue he was trying to get across is that dealerships and manufacturers are telling consumers they NEED AWD on their vehicles when that is not the case. The point is that with proper winter tires even a RWD car shouldn't have issues in the snow.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > DasWauto 12/16/2014 at 13:20

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lol

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > DasWauto 12/16/2014 at 13:20

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Pictured: DasWauto

TheOnelectronic > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:24

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The article's not so bad, but the headline should have been "AWD is not magic in the snow"

Mattbob > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:24

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also, I wouldnt say it is worthless. If you put those same summer tires on a RWD car, it just wouldn't move, instead of sliding a bit then going. This whole article is dumb. AWD help you get going, and can help pull your front end in the right direction regardless of tires. Stopping, however, is another matter.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:25

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Me and my better half have two cars and are living in Canada.

Hers is a 2013 BMW 328i Xdrive sporting Michelin X-ice during winter. Mine is a 2013 Ford Focus ST sporting Toyo Garritt.

Admittedly, the tires on her car are superior, but the Toyo are still good tires.

The AWD car is just so much better in the snow, there's no comparison. AWD doesn't replace winter tires, but in conjunction with them, it does marvels.

Textured Soy Protein > Party-vi 12/16/2014 at 13:26

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Yes, Gawker headlines are clickbait, in other news water is wet and the sky is blue.

My issue with the original post is not his argument that automakers are pushing awd as winter driving magic when really snow tires are what make the biggest difference.

My issue is that totally valid point is being confounded with a bunch of "AWD IS WORTHLESS IN THE SNOW* (* = without proper tires)" hand-waving.

And he didn't even bother with the asterisk.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:28

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As I said on the front page - stupid test is stupid.

Travis Okulski > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:29

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Talk about overreacting...

It's not like I made the video, though this one was sent my way on Twitter after and is really excellent:

And in the first sentences of the article, it says that it's not the driven wheels that matter, it's the tires that matter. The test is not scientific, it isn't perfect, but it's an interesting video that I thought I'd share with you, the reader.

Textured Soy Protein > Travis Okulski 12/16/2014 at 13:32

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The video itself is fine. It shows that awd isn't a magic winter driving potion in and of itself, and that a car with half the driven wheels will do better, if it has tires better suited for winter. Because it points out quite clearly that the M3 has winter tires on it and the Forester has summer tires on it.

I totally agree with you that winter tires are great in the winter. They are. But winter tires being great has nothing to do with awd being "worthless" in the winter.

If you changed your headline to "here's proof that awd is worthless in the snow without proper tires," all would be fine.

Travis Okulski > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:36

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Fair. I've added to the headline. You made a difference!

http://jalopnik.com/heres-irrefuta…

Party-vi > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:39

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Some men just want to watch the world burn.

shop-teacher > Travis Okulski 12/16/2014 at 13:41

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There you go! Now we've got accuracy and stuff.

Textured Soy Protein > Travis Okulski 12/16/2014 at 13:42

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Credit where credit is due, I changed my headline with an update as well.

jariten1781 > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:49

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Interesting experience. I found my old FWD Mazda 6 wagon on Blizzaks to be infinitely worse than my NA on the same. Acceleration from a stop was a bit better in the 6, but it loved to lose the rear while the fronts were still holding in long radius corners. Probably the worst snow car I've owned (not that it was in any way unsafe or especially difficult) outside of an old 80s RWD F150 which could go absolutely nowhere. The Miata was way more controllable, typically going into 4 wheel drifts as you described.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 13:50

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I said this in the other post - going isn't the important part, stopping is. AWD RWD FWD 4WD isn't going to affect how you stop and I really dont want to hit that tree.

Textured Soy Protein > OPPOsaurus WRX 12/16/2014 at 13:53

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That's true, snow tires definitely help stopping.

Textured Soy Protein > jariten1781 12/16/2014 at 13:55

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I'm not a fan of fwd in the snow for the reason you described. It's too easy to provoke into snap oversteer. It's easier to accelerate from a stop than rwd if both fwd and rwd cars are wearing mediocre all-season tires. My NB had the Torsen LSD which combined with the Blizzaks made for quite the fun combination. But overall the MS6 with Blizzaks was much more confidence-inspiring.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 14:04

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You say that like it's a bad thing.

Textured Soy Protein > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 12/16/2014 at 14:11

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Well, you don't always want snap oversteer. Sometimes that results in unintended ditch visits.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 14:14

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Haha I'm just kidding around

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > Travis Okulski 12/16/2014 at 14:23

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Did the Forester have summer tires on it though? It comes OEM with all seasons. So there is still some merit to this experiment. I also assume that the M3 has traction control enabled, which also would help it get up from a dead stop.

Regardless, though, this is why I outfit my Subaru with winter tires. Even though we generally don't have an awful winter, it's better to be safe than to regret it. Now, of course, this means I actually have to get off my lazy ass and swap my all seasons out.

Saf1 > Textured Soy Protein 12/16/2014 at 16:16

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Just part of a bigger problem. I gave up on Jalopnik it used to be an enthusiast haven now all these irrelevant articles get shared from Foxtrot Alpha, articles about boats and planes and people singing WTF. Just to get some stupid hits so they can print out a spreadsheet and say look daddy we're winning! They make subblogs for those articles and promptly ignore the whole point of them. Thing is Daddy Gawker's got his dick so far up their arses they can't even see the sensible everyone wins option of using the copious amounts of free space on the left BIG WHITE SPACE RIGHT THERE <——- to post that shit. So disappointing, Jalopnik was a huge influence in my life now I'd rather be a hypocrite and read non-car stuff on oppo because it's usually funny or interesting and is from oppos about oppos